Topic: Changing Beam ratio on New F150 , Void the Warranty ?

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Posted By: jimmyfred on 03/eleven/12 12:49am ...........I was considering irresolute the axle ratio on my F150 from 331 to either 373 or 410 ! Will this possibly cause Ford to void the warranty ? I'll ask them should I decide to go along . , thank you , jf

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2003 Chevy eight.one Dually 2Wdr.
1999 Travel Supreme , 33 RLSS
20K Reese , Prodigy etc.

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Posted By: ArcticDodge on 03/11/12 01:40am Don't enquire - Don't tell

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2009 Komfort 256TS
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins DRW
2005 Contrivance Durango Limited AWD HEMI
2006 Contrivance Charger R/T HEMI
2001 Sebring Convertible
1995 Miata G-Edition
1 Wife "> 2 Boys UW & Bellevue College
1 Trixie (Bichon Frise)
Simply 21 years to retirement!!!!

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Posted By: carringb on 03/11/12 01:54am Just stick with a factory-offered ratio, and accept the dealer re-program for the change. It won't affect the residual of warranty this way. Virtually ford dealers volition do gear swaps.

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2000 Ford E450 V10 VAN! 450,000+ miles
2014 ORV really large trailer
2015 Ford Focus ST

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Posted By: APT on 03/11/12 06:01am Why exercise y'all want to change the axle ratio?

This is why i recommend finding the truck yous want on the lot kickoff. $1500 aftermarket or $200 from the factory.

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A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009
2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland Northward Trail 28BRS
2017 Subaru Outback iii.6R
2020 Chevrolet Bolt

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Posted Past: nohurry on 03/11/12 06:27am

carringb wrote:

Simply stick with a factory-offered ratio, and take the dealer re-program for the modify. It won't touch on the rest of warranty this fashion. Most ford dealers will exercise gear swaps.

X2

Have a dealer do it, and your warranty will exist fine. Won't exist inexpensive, and if 4X4 you'll take to exercise front and dorsum. BTW, if you're gonna do it at all, go with the four:10'southward. Good luck.

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Carl
2007 National RV, Body of water Cakewalk

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/11/12 06:35am Are you not better off to just trade it?

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Posted By: eHoefler on 03/11/12 07:31am Dealer won't do information technology. Believe it or non, it will be an emission deal. I asked my dealer the aforementioned thing when I had trouble locating my 2010 Ram, I wanted the 4.ten. It changes the emission certification the industry places on it when information technology leaves the factory.

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2021 Ram Express, 3500, Crew Cab, 1075FTPD of Torque!, Max Tow, Long bed, 4 ten 4, Dually,
2006 twoscore' Landmark Mt. Rushmore

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Posted Past: NewsW on 03/11/12 07:38am

eHoefler wrote:

Dealer won't do it. Believe information technology or not, it will be an emission deal. I asked my dealer the same matter when I had trouble locating my 2010 Ram, I wanted the 4.x. Information technology changes the emission certification the manufacture places on information technology when it leaves the factory.

Translation: No affair who does it, osculation the warranty goodbye.

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Posted Past: WyoTraveler on 03/11/12 08:38am There were some previous posts on that issue and I was thinking about doing information technology. Not worth the cost. Buy smaller wheels for your truck.

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Posted By: jimmyfred on 03/11/12 08:54am

WyoTraveler wrote:

There were some previous posts on that upshot and I was thinking most doing information technology. Not worth the cost. Buy smaller wheels for your truck.

...........This truck came with 18 inch tires , so I suppose I could motility to the normal 16xxx size that were the accustomed standard several years previous .
...........And , your right , it probably isn't worth the toll. The 6 speed trany will compensate to some extent . , jf

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Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 03/11/12 08:56am Having a local axle & driveline store, or 4wd shop, or hot rod shop, practice the gear modify volition be less expensive than having a dealer do it.

Aye, it will void the warranty on the factory gears, since the factory gears are no longer in the truck, obvioiusly. Still, the manufacturer of the new gear sets will have a warranty on their product and the shop doing the work should likewise offer warranty service on their labor. Almost shops that do gear changes on a regular basis are not going to spiral up the install anyways, so no worries at that place.

My gear change from iii.55 to 4.56 on my F350 4wd, plus adding a locking differential to the rear axle at the same time, was $1800 including tax and the differential. I used very loftier quality Dana-Spicer and Precision Gear gear sets and a Richmond/Powertrax differential. No problems what so ever in the concluding seven or 8 years the gears accept been in the truck. I had a local axle/driveline specialist store do the work. No problem with their install at all. I would do it again in heartbeat.

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01 International 4800 4x4 CrewCab DT466E Allison MD3060
69Bronco 86Samurai 85ATC250R 89CR500
98Ranger 96Tacoma
20' BigTex flatbed
eight' truck camper, 14' Blueblood TT
73 Kona 17' ski boat & Mercury 1150TB
92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6 285 BFG AT 4.56 & LockRite rear

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Posted By: gmcsmoke on 03/11/12 08:59am

WyoTraveler wrote:

There were some previous posts on that issue and I was thinking nigh doing it. Not worth the cost. Buy smaller wheels for your truck.

So spending $1500 on a gear change isn't worth the price simply spending $1500 on new wheels and tires is?

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Posted Past: jimmyfred on 03/11/12 09:02am

NewsW wrote:

Are you not ameliorate off to just trade it?

.............No ! I purchased it initially , because they had discounted the sticker price so much earlier nosotros fifty-fifty started negotiations that it was still a good deal even with a 331 axle ratio .
.............I'll just focus my trailer choices too those models whose specifications meet the capabilities of the truck . , thanks , jf

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Posted Past: carringb on 03/xi/12 10:39am

eHoefler wrote:

Dealer won't do it. Believe it or non, information technology will be an emission bargain. I asked my dealer the same thing when I had trouble locating my 2010 Ram, I wanted the iv.10. It changes the emission certification the manufacture places on it when it leaves the factory.

I don't believe this is truthful. Your transmission has a list of components covered by the emissions warranty, and should also accept a listing of changes that will bear upon the emissions warranty (similar programers). The warranty transmission must explicitly listing whatever exclusions what would void that warranty. I have never seen gear ration changes lists as an exclusion. The kind of emissions compliance your truck must run across depends only on 3 things: GVWR, fuel type, and which states it will be sold in.

Both of my local Ford dealers do gear swaps.

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Posted By: JALLEN4 on 03/11/12 11:06am

Anytime a dealer modifies the drive-train and operation of a vehicle from the style in which it was certified, you have possible EPA repercussions. The potential fines are very large.

Some dealers exercise make these modifications just because of ignorance of the topic or because some employee was not trained properly. Others make modifications because they are big-headed and assume no i will question the repair. Whatsoever chaser familiar with the topic will strongly advise the dealer to non do the modification. The potential profit is very modest in comparison to the potential loss.

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Posted Past: SoCalDesertRider on 03/11/12 xi:28am Hither in California, we take the toughest emissions laws in the nation. In that location are no bug with emissions from swapping to a unlike axle ratio, even one that is not offered as a factory option. It is done all the fourth dimension on trucks and has been done for many years. No issues with emissions.

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/11/12 11:48am Allow's run a idea experiment.

Suppose the final drive ratio is changed past a large, hypothetical amount: east.one thousand. 20:1 considering the goal is to turn it into a stump puller!

Emissions certifications are washed on amount emitted per mile.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/standards/light-duty/ld-cff.htm

Suppose the emissions was marginal but within the legal limit for its class prior to modification with the new terminal bulldoze ratio.

The engine will be working a lot more revs to drive the same miles.

Will information technology void the certification?

The above exercise suggest yes.

Now, back to regular programming... the adjacent question is whether it will void a manufacturer warranty?

The brusque respond... possibly... depending on the specifics of the case.

A lot depend on what the warranty claim is most, and whether the vehicle warranty administration system demand documentation and prove that they will use to void it.

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Posted By: time2roll on 03/11/12 11:58am

ArcticDodge wrote:

Don't enquire - Don't tell

+i and stay away from the dealer whenever possible.

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2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures support

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Posted Past: skipnchar on 03/11/12 eleven:58am It volition NOT consequence your warranty as long every bit the ratio you're changing TO is 1 offered past Ford on that model years truck.

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2011 F-150 Hard disk drive Ecoboost 3.five V6. 2550 payload, 17,100 GCVWR -
2004 F-150 HD (Traded afterward fourscore,000 towing miles)
2007 Rockwood 8314SS 34' travel trailer

US Govt survey shows iii out of 4 people make upwards 75% of the full population

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Posted Past: NewsW on 03/eleven/12 12:00pm

That will work for at to the lowest degree v years before OBDIII with RF manual becomes mainstream.

Someday they plug in your auto, they know how often you sneezed in the auto and how hard.

Astonishing that certain tuning companies claim that their stuff is "undetectable".

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Posted By: jimmyfred on 03/11/12 12:07pm

..........my simplistic logic tells me that the emissions systems installed on each truck for that specific model yr is designed as well operate from 500 rpm also max rpm so as besides cover the total performance envelope of the engine ! It make no difference what speed the vehicle is traveling based upon the rear axle gear ratio ! , jf

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Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 03/11/12 12:35pm Human oh man, how tin irresolute the gears void the emission cert? As long as you pick a gear that Ford has Ford won't give a rats backside. Someone want to post a link to whatever State that does testing going down the road! None do as far as I know, sniffer up the tail pipe and that's it.

Don

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2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab SWB 4X4 Ecodiesel GDE Tune.

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Posted By: DirtyOil on 03/11/12 01:27pm

Geebiz... there you go completely ruining a perfectly senseless argument by calculation LOGIC to information technology!

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2013 RAM 3500 CTD Crew 4x4 Laramie
2014 Sprinter Copper Coulee 269FWRLS

GUTS GLORY RAM

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Posted By: BenK on 03/11/12 02:03pm I've been irresolute diff ratios since a teen (decades ago). Even on mod figurer
controlled (they have good enough of a retentivity to tell on yous) and have passed
all emission tests here in California (and the common impression of folks out
here are based on the fact that over fifty% of the adults here are imports from
the other 49 states...or more than accurately...rejects from the other 49 and wish
you folks would take them back).

The OEM warranty for the unequal covers what information technology left the mill and/or work washed
by a qualified and acceptable mechanic (dealer is safest, but any qualified
should exist covered).

The figurer does need to exist re-programed (told it has to use some other tabular array for
it'south look-upwards for the math it does to control)

All of my vehicles pass well under the 'boilerplate' and the 'max immune' for that
class/era of vehicle

Here is the electric current examination sheet for my 'high emitter contour' Silverado. 1980, C10,
performance v.7L (280 cam, Edelbrock performer loftier raise intake, Edelbrock
performer 4 barrel, 2.v" single frazzle, high menstruum muffler, modified spark plugs,
SS RF-Wire ignition, common cold/ram air intake, etc), 'built' automatic with shift kit,
3.73 diff (OEM was iii.08), 33/12.5R15LT load range C, etc. Nonetheless beats up pony
cars out on the boulevard.

Annotation how it passes with margin over the average and way more margin
over max allowed. Too, they always go information technology wrong and list it as a K
as the tires to them, are only for 4x4's...I don't effort to correct them
anymore, equally at a examination only station, they know everything and don't
like customers telling them anything...

This is washed at a test just and on a dynamometer

Here the 2008 for my 1996 Suburban and always wonder why information technology's listed as an high
emitter profile ??? It looks stock in just virtually everyway...except for the ram/cold
air intake and the dual exhaust (goes into a unmarried muffler so information technology is within the
rules). Has four.1's, merely they are OEM. the NOx is much higher than information technology used to and
know the CATs are wacky, but they are fairly new (about 20K miles on them and are
OEM unites ($400 each). Ditto trying to right a exam only station
that this has a vii.4L, which would/should/hope has a more lenient dominion
volume to follow

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-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" v.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (i/two ton) pickup, 2nd possessor...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all accept "olfactory organ bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'northward xviii" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from basis upwardly / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, ane ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

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Posted By: BenK on 03/xi/12 02:08pm Oh, look at the 'curb' weights for both of my trucks...must remember these for
the discussion on what 'curb' is...my K3500 Suburban has a book curb of 5,250lbs

Don't call up I could unbolt enough options to get information technology down to that weight...plus
I weigh a bit more than the proverbial 150lb commuter (180)

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Posted By: Highway 4x4 on 03/11/12 02:08pm I would guess you volition loose the warranty for the entire drive railroad train and emissions systems. Simply non all the other stuff, electronics, torso, pigment and that kind of stuff. I would merely ask a dealer. They built the truck a certain mode, you alter it, information technology'due south yours.

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2014 Ram Cummins Laramie, Crew cab, 4x4, Loaded, Snugtop camper
2014 OutdoorsRV Wind River 250RDSW
Big spoiled Bernese Mount Dog

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/11/12 03:46pm

Loftier NOx?

Combustion temperature.

Cheque for EGR role is showtime cheque.

Did the cat yous install actually meet OEM specs?

Namely, information technology has to be a three manner cat, non the older ones.

3rd, fuel --- are you using winter vs. summer fuel?

That can also enhance the NOx level.

Something is causing either as well much NOx (high temps) or causing information technology not to be reduced.

Combustion bedroom hot spots tin can practise that...

Is the cooling arrangement recently serviced?

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Posted Past: BenK on 03/11/12 04:09pm CATs are what the muffler shop sold and did not wait closely.

Now that you mention it...am having coolant bug and have greatly modified my
cooling system after almost losing it to DeathCool reactions with O2
in the mash. This is back in the 1998/99 time frame

Am using American Green (hate DeathCool, but resigned to having to use it all
likewise shortly).

Don't drive it much after retiring, but now have decided to bulldoze it weekends

A potential crate engine in the near future too...maybe a 502 or HO 454

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/xi/12 04:11pm Wintertime gasoline practice not comprise the diluents like ethanol (or the old days MMT) that lower combustion temperature.

Try summer gas and come across if the readings normalize.

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/xi/12 04:58pm Hither are the reactions that is suppose to happen with NOx:

CO + NO ? ½ N2 + CO2

HC + NO ? N2+ Water + CO2

HC + NO ? N2 + H2O + CO

H2 + NO ? ½ N2 + H2O

H2 + 2 NO ? N2O + H2O

5/ii H2 + NO ? NH3 + H2o

ii NO + 2 NH3 + ½ O2 ? 2N2 + iii Water

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Posted By: gmcsmoke on 03/11/12 05:29pm yet another thread ruined.

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Posted By: clearnetedm on 03/11/12 09:05pm I know nothing about warrenty law or take never had to deal with annihilation link this. However as I understand your warrenty can not be immediately canceled. If something bankrupt the dealer would need to prove the cause as existence directly related to the after market element. I'chiliad not sure how easy or hard that may be for the dealer with gear changes simply something to consider. I did find this on the web. Btw what is your requirement for the gear change? Is it just for a amend pull or to pull more?

Clicky

Quote:

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the demand for repairs earlier it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot testify such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.

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2013 F150 XLT 3.5EB Max Tow
2008 Ford Expy EL
2012 Rockwood 2601S

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/eleven/12 09:09pm

It is non the dealer, only the manufacturer who makes that determination.

With their legal obligation to warrant emissions for 5 / 7 / 8 years for light duty, it is very easy to say it violates the atmospheric condition of certification.

That is sufficient.

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Posted By: rexlion on 03/11/12 09:17pm I don't see the large deal about changing rear ratios in a vehicle with a 6 speed tranny. Why not shift down a gear and allow the transmission gears do pretty much the aforementioned thing for free? Yous already have those gears in the truck.

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Mike K.
Liberty is meaningless where the right to utter one'due south thoughts and opinions has ceased to be. That, of all rights, is the dread of tyrants. --Frederick Douglass
photograph: Yosemite Valley view from Taft Point

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/11/12 09:21pm

rexlion wrote:

I don't run across the large bargain about changing rear ratios in a vehicle with a 6 speed tranny. Why not shift downward a gear and permit the manual gears practice pretty much the same thing for free? Y'all already take those gears in the truck.

Because that does not involve a "mod" that promise to be the new sliced bread, make coffee, wash laundry, cook meals, and reduce fuel consumption by xc% while increasing power by 500% all at the aforementioned time.

* This post was edited 03/12/12 05:25am by NewsW *

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Posted Past: APT on 03/12/12 07:04am This thread has been derailed. Seriously. Emmisions for a gear swap? Dealer is non obligated to comply to the emission standards of the OEM by the land. At present, state and canton emission standards may nevertheless be required, but I am not sure how changing mechanical gear ratio affects that.

Regardless, what exactly does the original poster expect to proceeds by going 3.73 for example? The 6-spd with iii.31 has better torque multiplication than the old four-spd with 4.56 gears. Just stick with it, lock out sixth gear, possibly fifth besides when towing by using tow/booty and transmission modes. Stay under 6000 pounds dry considering you are payload limited for RVing anyway.

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Posted By: joshuajim on 03/12/12 08:32am

Not truthful here in California. In the more "smoggy" areas, the exam is done on a dynamometer. Not exactly going down the road, but the "road" is sure rotating under the car!

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RVing since 1995.

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Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 03/12/12 09:11am

Well I'm sure glad I live in NW Ohio, no emission testing at all, and we like to hunt and shoot matter also! But picked up a new GP100 SS 6" she is a brute.

Don

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Posted By: dodge guy on 03/12/12 11:50am

Unfortunately information technology doesn`t piece of work that way. the gear change, changes the overall gear ratios in the trans. only shifting down a gear will not change annihilation. why exercise you think the manuf. offer different ratios?

And as far every bit I know changing ratios volition not touch emmissions output. sure maybe the reckoner has a different calibration for a certain ratio, but that tin can exist reprogrammed past the dealer. but again I don`t believe there is a difference! And I have gone to school for Chrysler and never once did it come that there was a unlike calibration for different ratios!

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Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Domestic dog Bailey

12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway confined, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer

13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>

A bad day camping is
ameliorate than a goodbye at work!

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Posted By: Turtle n Peeps on 03/12/12 12:04pm

dodge guy wrote:

NewsW wrote:

rexlion wrote:

I don't see the big bargain about changing rear ratios in a vehicle with a half dozen speed tranny. Why not shift downward a gear and let the transmission gears do pretty much the same thing for free? Yous already accept those gears in the truck.

Because that does not involve a "mod" that promise to be the new sliced bread, make coffee, launder laundry, cook meals, and reduce fuel consumption past 90% while increasing power by 500% all at the same fourth dimension.

Unfortunately information technology doesn`t work that way. the gear change, changes the overall gear ratios in the trans. just shifting down a gear volition not alter anything. why do you call back the manuf. offering different ratios?

And as far as I know changing ratios will not affect emmissions output. sure maybe the computer has a different scale for a certain ratio, but that can be reprogrammed by the dealer. simply again I don`t believe there is a difference! And I have gone to school for Chrysler and never one time did it come up that there was a different calibration for dissimilar ratios!

Information technology most certainly does work that way. Look at the final drive chart that APT posted up.

A 6 speed has a way better gear advantage in 4 gear with three.31 gears than a 4 speed with 4.56 gears! Simply await at the chart.

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~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~

"Life is non tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if yous're standing
outside the fire"

"The all-time style to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln

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Posted By: mkirsch on 03/12/12 12:44pm

DirtyOil wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

Human being oh human being, how tin can changing the gears void the emission cert? Equally long equally you pick a gear that Ford has Ford won't requite a rats backside. Someone want to post a link to any State that does testing going down the road! None exercise as far equally I know, sniffer upward the tail piping and that's it.

Geebiz... there you go completely ruining a perfectly senseless argument by calculation LOGIC to it!

We're talking nigh the authorities here... No logic involved, or required.

BTW, irresolute the gear ratio changes the number of actual revolutions the truck'southward engine needs to travel a mile. Each revolution will cause 3-five puffs of exhaust smoke to exit the tailpipe.

More revolutions means more puffs of smoke out the tailpipe... More puffs of smoke mean more emissions.

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Putting 10-ply tires on one-half ton trucks since aught-four.

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Posted Past: NewsW on 03/12/12 12:53pm

joshuajim wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

Man oh human being, how can changing the gears void the emission cert? As long equally you pick a gear that Ford has Ford won't give a rats backside. Someone want to post a link to any State that does testing going down the route! None practise as far as I know, sniffer up the tail pipe and that'south it.

Don

Non true here in California. In the more "smoggy" areas, the exam is done on a dynamometer. Not exactly going down the road, but the "road" is certain rotating under the car!

2 technical issues.

One is the unit of emissions per mile.

Then whether the change will materially alter it to outcome in a neglect on the dyno.

Next, the issue of whether the OEM (Ford) will void the certification including the emissions warranty.

On that, I'd say yep if you need the emission warranty repair.

They can ever say, if you had it at OEM certificated specs, it would have passed and no repair would be necessary.

Manufactures build in a pretty wide margin in the emissions to ensure they dont pay out on as well many claims considering it has to work 5/7/8 years after under the warranty.

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Posted By: JALLEN4 on 03/12/12 12:57pm

clearnetedm wrote:

I know nothing about warrenty law or have never had to deal with anything link this. Yet as I understand your warrenty can not exist immediately canceled. If something broke the dealer would need to show the cause as being directly related to the afterward marketplace chemical element. I'k not certain how easy or hard that may be for the dealer with gear changes but something to consider. I did observe this on the web. Btw what is your requirement for the gear change? Is it but for a ameliorate pull or to pull more?

Clicky

Quote:

Nether the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must show, not but vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before information technology can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot show such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — information technology is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Merchandise Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty police.

In the xl+ years feel as a new car dealer, I have never seen a single example pursued successfully citing Magnuson-Moss. The simple reason is money.

The manufacturer, through dealer input, voids the warranty. The individual then has to hire an attorney to debate with their legal section which hires multiple attorneys for their staff yearly. When the cost exceeds the toll of ownership a new vehicle, nearly people driblet the activity.

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Posted By: JALLEN4 on 03/12/12 01:19pm

APT wrote:

This thread has been derailed. Seriously. Emissions for a gear swap? Dealer is non obligated to comply to the emission standards of the OEM past the country. At present, state and county emission standards may all the same be required, but I am not certain how irresolute mechanical gear ratio affects that.

Regardless, what exactly does the original affiche expect to gain by going three.73 for case? The half dozen-spd with 3.31 has improve torque multiplication than the quondam iv-spd with four.56 gears. Just stick with it, lock out 6th gear, maybe 5th too when towing by using tow/haul and transmission modes. Stay under 6000 pounds dry because yous are payload express for RVing anyway.

If you go to Wallaceracing.com/reargear.htm, they brandish a chart that shows emissions do alter along with the concluding drive ratio.

Dealers are prohibited, in 2 very important ways, from making these kinds of changes. One is that modification of under warranty vehicles in the areas of emissions or condom equipment are prohibited by the dealer's Sales and Service Understanding from the manufacturer. Willful violation of this agreement can result in loss of franchise.

A dealer'south Garage Keepers Liability policy would besides be void for whatsoever incurred liability when they knowingly altered an under warranty vehicle outside of emission standards.

Both the Federal EPA and the State EPA offices can prosecute when a dealer tampers with emission standards relevant to the vehicle. This has been washed in cases where dealers were adding dual exhaust to trucks and in cases where modifications were washed for higher operation.

Certainly each individual dealer as an independent business can cull to violate whatsoever of these items and some do. Out of a lack of cognition or feeling they will not be caught, they do make modifications outside of standards.

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Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 03/12/12 01:58pm I did the aforementioned emissions tests with my truck when it had three.55 gears in it as I practice now with the same truck with four.56 gears in it. At that place was no divergence in the emissions tests before and later the gear alter. The gears exercise non affect the testing. This is in California and the test is done on the dynamometer rollers too, I observe it running on the rollers every time I stand there and lookout man them do the test.

Furthermore, Ford made trucks with the aforementioned engines and transmissions in them with FACTORY axle ratios ranging from 3.55 to 5.13. Yeah, 5.13 was a factory gear ratio for F-Superduty trucks with the 460 and 7.3 diesel fuel in the '88-'97 model years. The trucks pass the emissions just fine.

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/12/12 03:36pm

JALLEN4 wrote:

In the xl+ years experience every bit a new car dealer, I have never seen a single case pursued successfully citing Magnuson-Moss. The elementary reason is money.

The manufacturer, through dealer input, voids the warranty. The private and then has to rent an attorney to contend with their legal department which hires multiple attorneys for their staff yearly. When the cost exceeds the price of buying a new vehicle, well-nigh people drop the activity.

More oftentimes than non, the manufactures are reasonable.

There was exactly i M-M case I know of, involving a lesser car maker.

Warranty denied by dealer on spark plug wires considering non-OEM spark plugs used.

They were dealt with politely, and saw the error of their ways.

And coughed up.

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Posted Past: rexlion on 03/12/12 04:35pm

dodge guy wrote:

NewsW wrote:

rexlion wrote:

I don't see the big deal about changing rear ratios in a vehicle with a 6 speed tranny. Why not shift down a gear and let the transmission gears do pretty much the same thing for costless? You already have those gears in the truck.

Considering that does non involve a "mod" that promise to be the new sliced bread, brand coffee, wash laundry, melt meals, and reduce fuel consumption past 90% while increasing power past 500% all at the same time.

Unfortunately it doesn`t work that manner. the gear change, changes the overall gear ratios in the trans. just shifting downwards a gear will not alter anything. why do you think the manuf. offer different ratios?

And as far as I know irresolute ratios volition non affect emmissions output. certain maybe the computer has a different scale for a certain ratio, but that can exist reprogrammed by the dealer. but once again I don`t believe there is a difference! And I take gone to school for Chrysler and never once did information technology come upwardly that in that location was a unlike calibration for different ratios!

If shifting downwardly a gear will not change anything, why practice nosotros have transmissions that shift? I gear would do for everything. Sheesh.

The final output ratio (and thus the corporeality of torque being practical) can be changed past shifting downwards a gear, simply every bit the final output ratio tin can be changed via a rear end gear swap.

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Posted By: dodge guy on 03/12/12 07:50pm

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

NewsW wrote:

rexlion wrote:

I don't encounter the big bargain about changing rear ratios in a vehicle with a 6 speed tranny. Why not shift down a gear and let the transmission gears practise pretty much the aforementioned affair for free? You already have those gears in the truck.

Because that does not involve a "mod" that promise to be the new sliced bread, brand coffee, launder laundry, cook meals, and reduce fuel consumption past 90% while increasing power past 500% all at the same time.

Unfortunately information technology doesn`t work that mode. the gear change, changes the overall gear ratios in the trans. just shifting down a gear will non change anything. why practise you think the manuf. offer different ratios?

And every bit far as I know irresolute ratios will not affect emmissions output. certain mayhap the reckoner has a different scale for a sure ratio, but that tin can be reprogrammed past the dealer. just again I don`t believe at that place is a difference! And I have gone to schoolhouse for Chrysler and never once did it come up that there was a dissimilar scale for different ratios!

Information technology about certainly does work that way. Look at the concluding drive chart that APT posted upwards.

A vi speed has a way ameliorate gear advantage in iv gear with 3.31 gears than a four speed with iv.56 gears! Just look at the chart.

I was talking near people saying that merely shifting to a lower gear will provide the aforementioned results equally a gear change. just put, a gear change will change all the ratios in a trans be it a 4, v or half dozen speed. so just shifting to fourth gear instead of trying to stay in 5th will not give y'all a 2k lb towing advantage. 2k lbs seems to be the increment in towing improvement a lower gear ratio offers........by the factory!

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Posted By: BenK on 03/12/12 09:01pm Thigh bone is connected to the human knee bone the knee os is continued to the ankle os...

Some of you folks are talking out of context and the age old saying above is
to try and show that some folks are talking about the ankle bone, others the
human knee bone, etc

Changing the unequal ratio is the last link in the chain of this food chain. So
yes it matters or is the bottom line.

The stuff upstream is affected past that end component...the unequal ratio...but...wait,
there is another bone in this food concatenation and that is the tire dia, which is the
final food chain link to the pavement

The tire dia change is the same affect every bit changing the diff ratio...it affects
EVERYTHING upstream all the fashion to the wing wheel

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Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 03/12/12 09:10pm Ben M has it right.

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Posted Past: dodge guy on 03/13/12 05:10am

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

Ben K has information technology right.

Very true! simply the OP is talking almost changing the diff ratio not tire diameter.

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Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 03/xiii/12 x:53am Skilful Gwod people, do some of you lot truly think the EPA is ever going to find out you lot swapped out the rear gears in your vehicle? They don't audit repair shops, they are non notified by parts departments when someone buys gears nor do they requite a S@#T!

Get outside and relish the fresh air or spring into a prissy COLD LAKE and chill-out already!

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Posted By: JALLEN4 on 03/13/12 05:04pm

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

Adept Gwod people, do some of y'all truly remember the EPA is always going to find out you swapped out the rear gears in your vehicle? They don't inspect repair shops, they are not notified by parts departments when someone buys gears nor do they give a Due south@#T!

Become outside and enjoy the fresh air or spring into a nice Cold LAKE and chill-out already!

Y'all are absolutely right! Only, hither is where the problem comes in. The rear end breaks or there is some other drive-line trouble that takes the vehicle in for service. The dealer at present working on the truck finds the alter, reports it to his service rep., and the warranty is voided. Now the dealer who fabricated the change is back in the middle of the problem and the potential liability.

All of this because someone at a dealership wasn't thinking and thought he was doing something great past netting a couple of hundred dollars on a $i,500 rear-end replacement. Might not bother you merely people who really are in business know where this story goes. If information technology tin can get wrong...information technology probably will!

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Posted Past: NewsW on 03/13/12 05:41pm

JALLEN4 wrote:

You are admittedly right! But, here is where the problem comes in. The rear end breaks or there is some other bulldoze-line problem that takes the vehicle in for service. The dealer at present working on the truck finds the change, reports it to his service rep., and the warranty is voided. At present the dealer who made the change is back in the center of the problem and the potential liability.

All of this because someone at a dealership wasn't thinking and idea he was doing something peachy by netting a couple of hundred dollars on a $one,500 rear-end replacement. Might non carp y'all just people who actually are in business know where this story goes. If it can become wrong...information technology probably will!

The root problem is children like customers who can't be man plenty to take responsibility for their toys.

If you are going to mod it, the manufacturer tin can fairly launder their hands off their residual liabilities --- up to 8 years or so for emissions warranty.

Or if there is an extended warranty, information technology is gone.

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Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 03/13/12 06:43pm

contrivance guy wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

Ben K has it correct.

Very true! only the OP is talking about changing the unequal ratio non tire diameter.

If you lot read Ben's post, he talks about changing the axle ratio, every bit well equally talks nigh changing the tire diameter. In the stop, they both have the aforementioned issue. Changing the axle ratio raises or lowers the overall gearing of the truck. Changing the tire bore has the same consequence on the overall gearing equally the axle ratio does.

The overall gearing of the truck is calculated using these components-

Transmission gear ratio
Transfer case gear ratio, if the truck has 4wd
Axle ratio
Tire diameter

If you have a transmission with internal ratios of four.00, 3.00, 2.00, i.50, 1.00, 0.70, and an axle with a ratio of 4.00, the overall ratios are every bit follows-

4.00 x 4.00 = 16.00
3.00 ten 4.00 = 12.00
2.00 x iv.00 = viii.00
1.50 x four.00 = half-dozen.00
1.00 x four.00 = iv.00
0.seventy x iv.00 = ii.eighty

If you modify the beam ratio to iii.00, the overall ratios are-

4.00 ten iii.00 = 12.00
3.00 x 3.00 = 9.00
2.00 10 iii.00 = half-dozen.00
1.fifty x iii.00 = 4.50
1.00 10 three.00 = iii.00
0.lxx 10 3.00 = 2.ten

The in a higher place calculations presume a abiding tire diameter.

Say you change the tire bore by 10% larger than stock. The overall ratios will all be 10% higher (numerically lower), or 90% of the original overall ratio-

4.00 x 4.00 = sixteen.00 10 0.90 = 14.40
3.00 x iv.00 = 12.00 10 0.90 = 10.80
2.00 x 4.00 = 8.00 10 0.ninety = 7.20
i.fifty x four.00 = six.00 x 0.90 = v.xl
1.00 x 4.00 = iv.00 ten 0.90 = 3.sixty
0.70 x 4.00 = 2.eighty ten 0.90 = 2.52

So you lot can meet how both the axle ratio and the tire bore impact the overall gearing of the truck, in every gear the transmission has. The whole range of ratios goes up or down together, as a set.

Shifting up or downwards one gear in the transmission only changes that one gear and does not touch the overall set of ratios throughout the the range of ratios of the tranmission.

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Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 03/13/12 06:53pm Changing the axle ratio does not void the emissions organization warranty.

The only part of the warranty that volition be voided is the part that covers the original manufacturing plant ring and pinion gear set inside the axle, since those original factory parts are no longer in the vehicle.

The manufacturer of the aftermarket gear set has their own warranty on those parts and the shop that does the install warrants their install job. There is no loss of overall warranty, simply a shifting of who is responsible for what, inside the axle.

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Posted By: NewsW on 03/thirteen/12 06:58pm

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

Changing the beam ratio does not void the emissions organisation warranty.

The only part of the warranty that volition exist voided is the part that covers the original factory ring and pinion gear set inside the axle, since those original factory parts are no longer in the vehicle.

The manufacturer of the aftermarket gear set up has their own warranty on those parts and the store that does the install warrants their install chore. There is no loss of overall warranty, just a shifting of who is responsible for what, within the axle.

Would yous be willing to stand behind this statement by indemnifying the OP if OP did this, and the warranty is voided past the vehicle manufacturer?

I interpret the warranty in such a way that if the rear beam ratio is inverse, the entire powertrain warranty is voided at the sole discretion of the vehicle manufacturer.

To recollect mods like this, or tuners, fries, etc. do not void warranty or are "undetectable" are urban legends.

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Posted Past: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 03/thirteen/12 07:01pm OK commencement off lets say dealer A does a gear bandy, if the dealer is using Ford parts and they fail they will WILL be covered under the factory coverage. The rear end will NOT alter the emission cert in any way. Now say the owner is out of boondocks and the gear set fails. He has it towed to the nearest Ford store tells them BTW I had my selling dealer change the rear gears to say 4:ten from 3:10. The dealer looks upward the repair/service via Ford dealer connect and finds the repair/service and covers it under the trucks warranty.

I had a 95 Dakota five.ii (318) bought a Mopar HP ECM, cam kit and another HP parts had the dealer install them to kept my 7/70 warranty coverage intact. Factory performance parts are tested and meet EPA standards. The ones that do not are sold for off route or race use only!

Y'all tin can do this with Chrysler, Ford and GM to this mean solar day. Telephone call them if you recollect I am incorrect.

Don

* This post was edited 03/14/12 12:18am by Perrysburg Dodgeboy *

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Posted Past: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 03/13/12 08:09pm DBl Post

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Posted By: carringb on 03/13/12 11:15pm

NewsW wrote:

I translate the warranty in such a way that if the rear axle ratio is changed, the entire powertrain warranty is voided at the sole discretion of the vehicle manufacturer.

To recollect mods like this, or tuners, fries, etc. exercise not void warranty or are "undetectable" are urban legends.

That cannot happen unless that is explicitly written as a condition of the warranty terms. Tuners, programmers, and the like oft are written every bit an exclusion in newer trucks. I have never seen an exclusion for gear ratios. Without a written exclusion, only parts affected by a modification can be denied warranty coverage. If somebody dropped on extremely low gears (say 8.20), and an axle shaft broke, then that would certainly exist an particular that may be denied coverage. Merely if the radio stops working afterwards said gears were installed, and then the radio would still be covered, since it is not an afflicted office.

When in doubt, a letter or electronic mail to Ford'south customer service should become an official answer.

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Posted By: JALLEN4 on 03/14/12 06:02am This same topic of gear changing was discussed on one of the Ford truck Forums recently. There was the usual feedback and recitation of myths offered in that thread as well. One of the participants went to an associate who was a Ford Service Rep. He stated the factory could and would void the power-train warranty if this change was discovered. Of course, people on the Forum did not believe that either.

The aftermarket vehicle modification manufacture is a multi-billion dollar one. People desire to amend their "ride" and suppliers have peachy fiscal incentive to defend their product. For several years I operated an accessory shop adjacent to 1 of our dealerships and information technology was lucrative. We did acquit a huge liability insurance policy and we did occasionally have bug. Our technicians were trained to not question add-ons unless there was a straight correlation between the add-on and the problem presented. That occasionally did happen.

My only words of caution would be to consider carefully the ramifications of any modification of an under warranty vehicle. Major automotive manufacturers have enormous resource that the average person is not prepared to compete with whether they are right or incorrect. Weigh the consequences and if making a change seems worth the potential complications...get for it. Merely don't make that conclusion based on the opinion of anonymous folks on the Cyberspace who have no existent knowledge and no "peel" in the game!

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Posted Past: NewsW on 03/fourteen/12 07:15am

JALLEN4 wrote:

The aftermarket vehicle modification manufacture is a multi-billion dollar i. People want to improve their "ride" and suppliers have great financial incentive to defend their product. For several years I operated an accessory shop side by side to i of our dealerships and information technology was lucrative. Nosotros did carry a huge liability insurance policy and we did occasionally have issues. Our technicians were trained to not question add together-ons unless there was a direct correlation between the addition and the problem presented. That occasionally did happen.

My only words of circumspection would be to consider carefully the ramifications of any modification of an under warranty vehicle. Major automotive manufacturers have enormous resources that the boilerplate person is not prepared to compete with whether they are right or wrong. Weigh the consequences and if making a change seems worth the potential complications...go for information technology. But don't make that decision based on the opinion of bearding folks on the Internet who take no real knowledge and no "peel" in the game!

I am a firm believer that there is room for outstanding aftermarket services / products that can practice what a manufacturer cannot or will non do properly.

Having said that, the cost of entry into the business is no longer things like having a garage and a willing gear up of hands and simple tools.

Here are some basic equipment I can see a modder might need / be good to have:

Finite Element Analysis Mesh Software to model / simulate parts.

Computational Fluid Dynamics Software for flow models --- both gas and liquid or mixed phase.

Computational Chemistry models to study reactions.

Combustion simulators.

Instruments for metrology, inspection, similar Scanning Electron Microscopes.

Gas Chromatography Equipment to assay samples, compounds.

Software / Code analyzers and reverse engineering science tools for "black boxing" modules.

And then, specific equipment to practice jobs like coating, e.g. Diamond Like Carbon coatings, cryogenics, laser or CNC machine tools that can do piece of work at the 10**1 micron range, etc.

How many modding shops there have even 1 of these?

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